TO SAVE WHAT LITTLE SOUL IS LEFT

Interview with Franjo Topic, President of the Croatian

Cultural Society "Napredak"

AIM, SARAJEVO, March 4, 1994

Dr.Franjo Topic, President of the Croatian Cultural and Educational Society "Napredak" was born in 1953 in Novi Travnik, where he completed elementary school, then grammar school in Subotica, theology in Sarajevo, post - graduate studies in Rome, where he also got his doctoral degree in

1. After that, he returns to Sarajevo, teaches fundamental theology, publishes articles, cooperates with the Committee "Islam in Europe", and in 1990 becomes the President of "Napredak".

AIM: You teach fundamental theology and today the word "fundamentalism" has a completely different connotation.

TOPIC: Yes, I remember a round table at the Islamic Faculty in 1989 on the topic "Fundamentalism, What is That"? Regrettably, it has assumed political features today, come into daily use without arguments. Fundamentalism is a return to one's roots and, naturally, every religion, philosophy, spiritual movement, thought or teaching are human, i.e. partly subject to human changes so that distancing from the source is only normal. That is why in every religion there exists a movement for returning to the source. However, we should always distinguish between the important and the secondary. The essential truth is God, Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church, and their formulations and expressions are often subject to the times, to changes. Like in the case of a walnut, where the kernel must not be changed, while the shell is shaped and changed.

AIM: To which extent is there today, in your opinion, an attempt to instrumentalize religion and to attempt to create theological states in the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina?

TOPIC: From the standpoint of a politician, it is only normal. Each one of them wishes to have as much as possible strength, power, to unite all spiritual, material, economic and other resources, and one of the essential elements of man's life is religion, so they also wish to put it too into their service. In the past, many emperors proclaimed themselves God, even in atheism. I remember Djilas mentioning in his biography of Tito, that Tito too was preordained and heaven sent. Thus, the person who has power wishes to put everything in the service and support of that power, and if religion also sides with that it gets a completely different meaning, a different hallmark of the times. The mighty are a latent danger to religion.

AIM: You are the President of the Croatian Cultural Society "Napredak". How is the Society operating today in this war in B&H?

TOPIC: In this cataclysm created by the war, we in "Napredak" thought that it was our obligation to intensify our activities, to work more and help people in different ways. We organized, for instance, the first, if I may so call it, cultural manifestation in the war beset Sarajevo, in May 1992 with actors from Sarajevo, we staged over 20 concerts of classical music, we have a choir "Trebevic" with 91 members, which was for a time the only choir in the city, we have published six books about the war, and recently a calendar - book of over 400 pages, which is now used in Sarajevo as a wall calendar on the subject of refugees, a church calendar, a pocket calendar. We worked a lot with other associations too, organized round tables, and we also have our different associations - for health, music, societies associated with the "Napredak" Assembly with 360 renowned members and an educational society.

Needless to say, due to the exceptionally grave humanitarian situation in the city, that segment also had to be included, so that thousands of parcels, both for individuals and those for different organizations and associations were distributed through "Napredak". We also give out meals, over 95 thousand so far, together with the Vrhbosna Seminary. Finally, our monthly journal the "Stecak" (medieval standing tombstone) has started coming out and we are shareholders in the Vrhbosna Radio. All this is our specific contribution to the defence of this country from evil. For, power lies not only in arms, although many have taken them up, even many who did not wish to do so. But, according to the saying :"He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword", I think that the sword will not have the last word. I know that it now seems the only instrument to many, but it is not the most important, the most essential one for man. We have our own Bosnian identity, many cannot understand that, we love this city and we shall stay here. That is not a mere phrase, but a message from our very soul.

AIM: You truly love Bosnia?

TOPIC: I do not see this multicultural, multiconfessional Bosnia of ours as a burden, but rather as a mosaic and I wish those parts of the the mosaic which represent the Croatian culture, those small stones in it, to last for ever and embellish it, to constitute a normal human life.

AIM: To which extent are you refering to Bosnia and Herzegovina as a state in its internationally recognized borders, and to which extent as a narrower concept of a religious Vrhbosna?

TOPIC: Well, we have both in mind. We do not decide on political borders, but our church has been here for 905 years, as attested to by the first written records, and that is not only a historical or sentimental fact, but also has a deeper meaning encompassing everything representing our presence here. Actually, our church has been in these territories for longer than, for instance, in Zagreb, and many do not know that and are surprised at that fact.

AIM: Many people who go out of this Sarajevo hell, for instance of Croat nationality, are ambassadors of good will and ambassadors of evil at the same time in the places where they go to. The people from the Catholic church, who permanently return to the city, are ambassadors of good will in the Croatian information space all over again.

TOPIC: It is no secret that the Croatian media space has been dislocated from Sarajevo, because neither HTV (Croatian Television) nor a single leading state newspaper have any correspondents in the city. The Croatian public, therefore, does not have true information and cannot make the correct judgements. This has reached such proportions that it is even assumed that we are not here at all, that we are doing nothing, etc. I recently visited Zagreb, and when I told people we were starting a paper, they looked at me queerly as if I came from outer space. Regrettably, there are people who leave Sarajevo and then give wrong information about the city, but there are always some of us who will tell the truth about Sarajevo. Those who leave, leave for their own personal reasons, but no one has the right to make life worse for those who have remained. In any case, it is truly not easy to explain Bosnia to someone from without. Bosnia is an enigma.

AIM: How would you explain the position of the Croats in B&H to a foreigner, for instance?

TOPIC: That would not be at all easy. Last summer, when these conflicts started between HVO and the B&H Army, I said that B&H had become a "Bermuda triangle", which means that people like vessels disappear without knowing why and how, without any explanation. Logic no longer plays a major role, arguments mean little and it is very difficult to define our position in all that. War disrupts nearly all social standards, values and bearings, and has disrupted ours too, so that we are certainly in a situation which is very difficult to define. However, the trouble of B&H is the trouble of all people. When a shell falls in Sarajevo, then it is not a Croat, Serb or Moslem who suffers because of it, but it is man who suffers and we are equally pained by this trouble. But, what I should like to underline are elementary principles such as man's right to live where he will, without politics moving him from here to there.

Naturally, moving existed and will exist till the end of the world, but I am referring to some normal, natural moving. Forcible moving will exterminate us. It is like with a plant, you can replant it only at a given time and in a given place, otherwise it dies. What I want to say that no one may sin against nature and natural laws, or he will sin against himself. In this Bosnia of ours the greatest problem, both for the Croats and for the other peoples is how to reconcile principles and reality. For, irespective of the priciples we set before ourselves in politics, if they do not correspond to reality, they will never hold out.

AIM: The Bosnian Croats, primarily the Croats from the Sava river valley and central Bosnia recently expressed their will vis-a-vis the concept of Bosnia, the Bosnia they want, with unsevered links with other nations. Is this mere wishful thinking, because force is not working out for them, or is it historic reality?

TOPIC: Regrettably, it seems that weapons are, at this time, the only reality which decides in most cases. But, they cannot stay with us for ever. It is difficult for people who think differently, with a longer term perspective, to speak without the arguments of weapons and force. For, what is accepted here is only what someone has conquered by force, which is a wrong approach both for us and for the international community. We should insist on some other things, beyond weapons and force, for if force remains the dominant approach to problems and the only principle, we shall destroy all norms and then why should not France and Germany, or some other countries, for instance, wage war again? There is, regrettably, much evil here and much foolishness has been committed. I come from central Bosnia, where both Croat and Moslem blood is being shed today. I keep saying that no effort must be spared to solve the issue of central Bosnia. We cannot bring back the dead, but we can still prevent from leaving behind us in those regions a profound hatred in human souls and human hearts, which will determine their life. And as such, it cannot be beautiful.

AIM: What is the function of the Croatian Coordinating Committee, of which you too are a member?

TOPIC: I am sorry to say that the Committee was born precisely out of trouble. We all exert efforts to save at least one human life, at least what little soul we still have left. There is too much evil and bloodshed for us to remain silent. People of good will have gathered together to proliferate our general interests, not political ones as many believe, but vital ones. I have no intention whatsoever of taking part in politics, but I think it is my duty to try to do what I can, both for my sake and for the sake of others. When we are dying, starving, lying ill, that is not politics for us, but survival, mere life. Nevertheless, the Coordinating Committee is a permanent "tightrope walker". It has no army behind it, except our will and, I would say, wisdom, and we were attacked both in Croatia and in Herzegovina, and even here. It is not any supra-party or a new political organization , but a life organization of HOS

• meaning the Croatian Salvation Committee! One day this war will end, after all. We should save the positive that has remained in all of us, and all the evil will be made known. Wrong are those who think that anything can be hidden, everything will be known in the end. The truth moves in mysterious ways.

AIM: Most of those who invoked the people, the will of the people, were most often the greatest demagogues, who tried to overcome their personal frustrations by becoming the "champions of national interests". Today, under their leadership these people are killing each other. Is reconciliation possible after so much evil?

TOPIC: It is my most important mission, and God willing, when the war ends I shall persevere in it. I know how illusory and difficult it now seems, for instance,to fighters from both sides, watching each others over the sights of their guns, but it is possible.If at this moment the leading people, from politicians to military commanders and even religious leaders and cultural workers were to propagate joint life through the media, it would be very easy to establish, i.e. to restore it. I am deeply convinced of that, because once when everything is over, when those waging war convince themselves that they will attain nothing by war, that crimes bring nothing good, we shall have to seek new ways leading us to a joint life.

AIM: To which extent are Croatian state interests , as today defined in the state of Croatia, vis-a-vis B&H contrary to the real interets of the Croatian people in B&H?

TOPIC: The people is above the state and the state should be in the service of the people, and not vice versa. The interest of the whole Croatian people is the survival and and continuance of Croats in all parts of B&H where they used to live. I think that is also the priority of all other peoples, the Serbs too, those who did not take part in the genocide against other peoples. Bosnia will live with the Croats, Moslems, Serbs, Jews and all the other peoples who lived in it before this bloody war.

ADIL KULENOVIC